PARALLAX · established 1995 · evidence first · no hoaxes · no threats · write the date down

PARALLAX

see it twice.
sightings & case files · the experiencers · cryptozoology · ancient anomalies · esoterica & prophecy · preparedness — an international community since 1995
PARALLAX  »  ESOTERICA, ENERGY & PROPHECY  »  Energy Work & Healing  »  Biofield / "energy" -- what would actually COUNT as evidence? (no woo, no sneering)
✎ Post Reply   « Energy Work & Healing
Biofield / "energy" -- what would actually COUNT as evidence? (no woo, no sneering)
Page 2 of 7   «123467»
Priya_99
Senior Member
◆◆◆◆
Posts: 6,010
Joined: Apr 1999
From: Cambridge, UK
#9▸ Posted: 05 Dec 1998, 11:55 GMT
And THERE it is, on schedule, the exact moment the thread gets somewhere a substrate-question can grip. Carol, with as much respect as I can manage at this hour: you are not my ally. You are the reason the grant application gets laughed out of committee. "The matter is in the field" is not deeper than physics, it is an exemption FROM physics, and the people who could actually test Rey's statistics and Bea's coupling hypothesis read your post and quietly conclude the whole subject is for people who could not pass mechanics. I would rather argue with Razorback for a decade than be defended by "you cannot weigh a kindness." Some of us are trying to keep the door open and you keep painting "GHOSTS" on it.
Cambridge · an exemption from physics is not a substrate
Occams_Razorback
Resident Skeptic
◆◆◆◆◆
Posts: 16,720
Joined: Apr 1998
From: Chicago, US
#10▸ Posted: 10 Jan 1999, 16:30 CST
I came in to ask for one falsifiable protocol and I am leaving with four incompatible mechanisms from four people who all believe in the phenomenon and cannot agree what it IS -- a microtubule, a selection pressure, an analytic field, a declassified skill -- plus one who thinks the question itself is impious. That is not a gotcha. That is genuinely the most interesting hour this board has given me in a year, and I want it on the record that Rey's Utts-Hyman point and Bea's "test the relationship not the belief" are both real holes in my position that I do not have a clean answer to tonight. I am still not convinced -- that is the job, not a personality flaw -- but I am LESS not-convinced than I was this morning, and from me that is a parade. Pre-register Bea's experiment. I will help design it specifically so it can humiliate me. That is the only honest way I know to want to be wrong.
the 5% · less not-convinced than this morning
SkepWell
Administrator
◆◆◆◆◆◆
Posts: 18,204
Joined: Mar 1998
From: Colorado, US
#11▸ Posted: 16 Feb 1999, 22:00 MST
[staff] Pinning this as the reference thread for how the magic-versus-method fight is supposed to go on PARALLAX. Note for everyone arriving later: nobody converted anybody, four believers openly contradicted each other on mechanism, the resident skeptic conceded two real points and offered to help design the experiment that could sink his own view, and the one purely faith-based post got the hardest time -- from the OTHER believers, not from us. That is the board working. New members: this is the bar. If your contribution is "open your heart" or "it is all just placebo," read these eleven posts first and then ask yourself whether you are clearing it.
Admin · see it twice.
Sedona_Raine
Member
◆◆◆
Posts: 3,380
Joined: Jun 2000
From: Sedona AZ, US
#12▸ Posted: 24 Mar 1999, 09:40 MST
Skep pinned us, which means the thread will now attract both the sharp knives and the incense table. So let me narrow my claim before anyone else narrows it for me.

I do not claim I can detect an anonymous hand through a screen on demand. I do not claim I can fix cancer from Arizona. I claim that in a sustained practitioner-client relationship, intention plus attention sometimes changes measurable stress markers faster than rest alone. That is smaller than the brochures say and larger than placebo-as-dismissal allows. I can live inside that small claim. I can test that small claim. If it dies, it dies with its boots on.
Sedona · small claims can still breathe
Occams_Razorback
Resident Skeptic
◆◆◆◆◆
Posts: 16,720
Joined: Apr 1998
From: Chicago, US
#13▸ Posted: 29 Apr 1999, 11:18 CST
For people arriving late, I am attaching the first-page scan of the Rosa paper, not because it is sacred scripture but because everybody keeps arguing against a version of it they have never read. The useful features are simple: hidden target, forced choice, enough trials to get past anecdotes, and a result the practitioners could not rescue after the fact.

It is not the last word. It is the first honest broom through a very dusty room. If your claim is not the one Rosa tested, fine. State yours with the same clarity and let it risk the same kind of result.
JAMA 1998, Rosa therapeutic-touch paper, first page scan from a library photocopy. Posted so the thread argues with the paper, not the rumour of it.
the 5% · read before rebutting
K7RADIO
Veteran Member
◆◆◆◆◆
Posts: 10,110
Joined: Dec 1998
From: Arizona, US
#14▸ Posted: 04 Jun 1999, 07:55 MST
Here is a magnetocardiogram trace from a teaching handout I have used in radio-club talks. This is the part of the word "biofield" that is not imaginary: the heart is an electrical machine and an electrical machine has a magnetic field. The trace is small, clean, measurable, and fussy about shielding.

Now the unfashionable sentence: nothing in this plot tells you a healer across the room can alter the liver. It tells you biology is electromagnetic before breakfast. That is enough wonder. Stop stealing extra wonder on credit.
Magnetocardiogram teaching trace. Real femtotesla-scale measurement, not a licence for every energy claim under the sun.
K7 · keep the measurement, drop the leap
Anonymous Coward
anon
(unregistered)
User ID: 12810836
From: JREF board mostly
#15▸ Posted: 11 Jul 1999, 23:14 EST
why is this 2 pages long when there is a million dollars waiting? if any of you can do ANY of this apply for the Randi prize. simple. pass a test, take the money, shut skeptics up forever. the fact nobody does it tells us everything. all this "relationship" and "substrate" talk is just avoiding the only test that matters.
Rey_Sayers
Senior Member
◆◆◆◆
Posts: 2,710
Joined: Oct 1999
From: Maryland, US
#16▸ Posted: 16 Aug 1999, 10:06 EST
The prize is not a protocol, it is a publicity structure. Sometimes publicity is useful. Often it contaminates the thing being tested before the first trial begins. If you want remote viewing tested, you do what SRI did at its best: blind target pools, judging rules stated before sessions, transcripts preserved, misses kept, and no one in the room knowing the answer.

That still leaves hard questions. Hyman was right about too much retrospective judging. Utts was right that the combined statistics did not vanish merely because people disliked the subject. Both can be true. A million-dollar stunt does not improve either point.
Maryland · declassified only
Page 2 of 7   «123467»
✎ Post Reply
PARALLAX · see it twice. · evidence first · write the date down · sources or it didn't happen
all times shown in the poster's local zone