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PARALLAX  »  UFOLOGY & AERIAL PHENOMENA  »  Sightings & Case Files  »  Roswell at 50 -- the file, the reports, and why the story keeps changing
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Roswell at 50 -- the file, the reports, and why the story keeps changing
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MUFON_Gail
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From: Ohio, US
#1▸ Posted: 07 Jul 1997, 14:33 EST
Roswell at 50 -- the file, the reports, and why the story keeps changing.

I'm sitting in front of a copy of the Air Force's new "Case Closed" report -- it just came out last month -- and I have to say what I always say when I finish reading about this thing: I want it to be mundane. I really do. The debris field, the witnesses, the whole fifty-year argument. I want a weather balloon, or I want Project Mogul, or I want something that makes sense and closes the file.

But the file won't close. And that's the problem.

July 1947. Mac Brazel finds debris on the Foster Ranch, seventy-five miles from Roswell, New Mexico. The Roswell Army Air Field -- home of the 509th, the only atomic bomb group in the world at that time -- sends Major Jesse Marcel out to recover it. July 8th, the base issues a press release: they have recovered a flying disc. Within hours, General Roger Ramey, from Fort Worth, issues a retraction. It's a weather balloon. There's a famous photograph of Ramey's office: foil, balsa, rubber. Case closed, 1947.

But it stayed closed for thirty years. Nobody talked about it. Then Stanton Friedman interviewed Jesse Marcel in 1978, and Marcel said, "I know what a weather balloon looks like. This was not a weather balloon." The Roswell Incident came out in 1980. The story grew. Crashed saucer. Alien bodies. A cover-up.

In 1994, the Air Force says it was Project Mogul -- a classified array of high-altitude balloons designed to detect Soviet atomic tests. And the reports of alien bodies? The new "Case Closed" report says those came from misremembered high-altitude anthropomorphic tests in the 1950s. Time compression of memory, they call it.

Three different official stories. Weather balloon. Mogul balloon. Crash-test dummies from a decade later.

This thread is for the evidence, at the 50th anniversary. Let's see if we can figure out what happened, and more importantly, why we keep being told something different. The file is open. I want to close it. Help me close it.
MUFON_Gail, field investigator
Occams_Razorback
Resident Skeptic
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From: Chicago, US
#2▸ Posted: 07 Jul 1997, 15:47 CST
I'll bite. Mogul explains the debris. I've read the specs. A Mogul balloon train was massive -- hundreds of feet of equipment, radar reflectors, microphone arrays. When that thing comes down, you get scattered debris across a huge area. Balsa and wood frames, reflective foil, rubber, tape. That matches exactly what Ramey photographed in his office in 1945.

Wait. 1945. That's wrong. I mean 1947. See how easy that is? Let me check the dates again.

Okay. Here's the problem. The Air Force is now saying that the reports of "little bodies" -- and there ARE witnesses who say they saw something -- came from misremembered encounters with crash-test dummies from high-altitude tests. Tests that didn't happen until the 1950s. After 1947. Years after.

So the explanation for the debris is good. Mogul fits. But the explanation for the BODIES -- the part that made this a UFO story instead of a classified balloon story -- that explanation requires witnesses to have compressed memories across a decade, or just made it all up.

I'm a skeptic. I believe in Occam's razor. The simplest explanation is usually true. But the Air Force's explanation for the bodies isn't simple. It's complicated. And for a skeptic, that should raise a flag too.
Occam cuts both ways
radar_Reg
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From: Lincolnshire, UK
#3▸ Posted: 07 Jul 1997, 19:22 GMT
American colleagues, if I may -- I spent eighteen years with the RAF, and I can tell you what those Mogul trains looked like, because the Brits knew about them by the early 1950s. Enormous things. A single Mogul array could be hundreds of feet long when fully deployed. Radar reflectors made of wooden frames and aluminium foil, just like in the Ramey photograph. Balsa and tape. Lots of tape.

If you found a piece of it without knowing what it was, you might think you'd found something extraordinary. The materials were unusual for 1947. The construction was bizarre. And if you were an intelligence officer at an Army Air Field, you might immediately think of the Russians, or something worse.

So the debris story makes sense as Mogul. Ramey's photograph, the foil, the balsa -- all consistent. The design was compartmentalised. Most officers wouldn't have known what Mogul was. So: panic, a press release, a retraction, and thirty years of silence until Friedman broke it open.

That part of the story is sound.
RAF, retired
DesertGlass
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From: Phoenix AZ, US
#4▸ Posted: 08 Jul 1997, 02:15 MST
I want to believe this was real. I've always wanted to believe that. And I've read enough of the witness testimony to think something genuinely unusual happened. But Reg is right -- the debris story works for Mogul. I can concede that. Balsa and foil and tape from a classified balloon train. It makes sense.

What I'm not conceding is the bodies. Because the witnesses who describe those are not confused ranchers. Some of them are people with training, people with credibility. And the idea that they mixed up a crash-test dummy from 1953 with an event in 1947 -- that they compressed time in their memories by six or seven years -- that feels like an insult to their intelligence.

The Air Force can have the debris. But they haven't explained the bodies to me yet.
DesertGlass
TrustNo1
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From: [you first]
#5▸ Posted: 08 Jul 1997, 06:44 EST
This is what I want to say, and I want someone to explain to me why I'm wrong.

1947: Weather balloon.

1994: Project Mogul.

1997: Crash-test dummies from the 1950s, time-compressed memories.

Three. Different. Stories.

The government has now given us THREE official explanations. Each one came out when the old one was failing under scrutiny. The Mogul explanation came out when the weather-balloon story couldn't hold up. The dummy explanation came out when Mogul couldn't explain the witness testimony.

So why would I believe the third one? Why would I trust that this is the final answer? Wouldn't the fourth explanation just be waiting in the wings for ten years from now, when someone punches another hole in this one?

The cover-up isn't alien bodies. The cover-up is why the government needs a new story every time someone asks too many questions.
TrustNo1
Anonymous Coward
anon
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User ID: 48841242
From: a VPN, probably
#6▸ Posted: 08 Jul 1997, 08:12 CDT
I'm at the Roswell festival right now. Got in yesterday. Tens of thousands of people here. Main street is full of UFO shops and t-shirts and a guy dressed up like a grey alien getting his picture taken with tourists.

I came here to see what all the fuss was about. And I've got to say -- talking to people, reading the vendor materials, looking at the exhibits -- I think Mogul is the answer. I'm a physicist, amateur astronomer, been following this since 1980. The Mogul explanation is consistent with the witness testimony about the debris. The materials match. The location matches.

The Air Force put together a solid report. It's not perfect. It doesn't explain everything. But it explains more than any other theory I've seen. The simplest explanation is probably the right one. Project Mogul. Classified. Forgotten. Recovered quietly. Covered up for real -- not because of aliens, but because it was classified.
Anon
MUFON_Gail
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From: Ohio, US
#7▸ Posted: 08 Jul 1997, 09:31 EST
Let me lay out the timeline the way the Air Force is presenting it now, because it's important to see it all at once.

July 1947: Brazel finds debris on Foster Ranch.

July 8: Roswell AAF recovers it. Ramey photographs it at Fort Worth -- foil, balsa, wood, rubber, tape. Press release: flying disc.

July 9: Retracted. Weather balloon.

1947-1978: Silence.

1978: Friedman interviews Marcel. "Not a weather balloon."

1980: "The Roswell Incident" published. Saucer and bodies enter the narrative.

1994: Air Force releases the Mogul explanation.

1997: "Case Closed" -- the bodies were misremembered crash-test dummies from tests years after 1947.

When you lay it out like this, TrustNo1 has a point. The government changed its story twice. Not because new evidence came in. Because the old story couldn't hold up under questioning. Each retraction was a response to a challenge, not a revelation of new facts.

That's not how the truth usually works.
MUFON_Gail
radar_Reg
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From: Lincolnshire, UK
#8▸ Posted: 08 Jul 1997, 14:08 GMT
MUFON_Gail, I have to respectfully disagree with your implication. The change in official story doesn't prove a cover-up of something extraordinary. It proves a cover-up of something classified.

The 1947 press release was an honest mistake. They found something they thought was extraordinary. It turned out to be classified. Mogul was compartmentalised, and even the base might not have known. So they retracted and said weather balloon -- the default cover for anything they couldn't talk about.

Thirty years later, when Friedman forced the issue, they could finally declassify enough to say Mogul. Not a lie -- a necessary secrecy. The dummy explanation in 1997 is their attempt to explain the body reports. Are they reaching? Yes. Does the timeline strain? Badly. But that doesn't mean they're lying about Mogul.

The changing stories prove compartmentalisation, not an alien cover-up.
Reg
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