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PARALLAX  »  UFOLOGY & AERIAL PHENOMENA  »  Sightings & Case Files  »  The Belgian triangle wave -- F-16 radar locks, full chronology (sources in OP)
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The Belgian triangle wave -- F-16 radar locks, full chronology (sources in OP)
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radar_Reg
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#33▸ Posted: 17 Oct 2000, 11:26 GMT
Pierre, I have Meessen's published paper in front of me. He makes several good points. I want to focus on one: the recorded "jumps" in altitude and speed. He argues that if the radar was simply picking up a layer inversion, the returns would show a gradual migration, not discrete jumps. That is a fair argument.

But here is where I have a question. The tapes show a sample rate of roughly one update per second. If a real object moved three thousand feet in one second, that would indeed be a jump. But if the radar lost the object for a moment and then re-acquired it ten miles away, it would also show as a jump. The tape would not show the gap -- it would show before and after, with nothing in between.

And that is exactly what you would expect from a processing error or a momentary lock-loss and re-acquisition. So Meessen's argument cuts both ways. The jumps could be real, or they could be data artifacts. His analysis does not prove which.
--Reg
Anonymous Coward
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#34▸ Posted: 27 Oct 2000, 15:08 CET
I work with radar systems. I'm Belgian. I cannot say more than that. But I want to add something to this debate.

The Glons system in 1990 was not state-of-the-art. It was functioning, but it was aging. The filters and the digital processing -- they were known to have quirks. One of those quirks was exactly what Reg describes: momentary lock-losses followed by re-acquisition would show as jumps in the recording. Another quirk was that ground clutter near the system's location could produce ghost returns under certain conditions.

I am not saying the March 30th data was ground clutter. I am saying that the system had the capability to produce such artifacts, and the recorded data alone does not prove otherwise. An engineer would need to see the operator's log from that night. What was the weather? What was the clutter level? Were there known issues that day?

Those logs, as far as I know, have never been made fully public.
WroclawWatcher
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#35▸ Posted: 07 Nov 2000, 17:41 CET
The Anonymous Coward raises a fair point. But this is exactly where the secret-aircraft hypothesis provides a solution. If a real object was in the airspace -- whether or not it was classified -- the radar would behave in all the ways described. It would show jumps, because the object was moving. It would hold locks, because the object was solid. And the system's known quirks would make it look like an artifact when the data was reviewed afterward.

In other words: a secret aircraft would produce exactly the radar signature we are seeing. And the skeptics would dismiss it as a system quirk. Which is precisely what happened. So the question is not whether the radar data is ambiguous -- everyone agrees it is. The question is what caused the ambiguity.
--WW
Occams_Razorback
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#36▸ Posted: 17 Nov 2000, 09:51 CST
WroclawWatcher, you keep returning to the secret-aircraft hypothesis, but it does not simplify the explanation. It adds a layer of classification on top of the ambiguous radar data. At that point, we have moved from "the radar data is unclear" to "the radar data is unclear and the US is hiding something." Both may be true, but Occam's Razor says we should not multiply hypotheses beyond necessity.

A more parsimonious explanation: the radar data is ambiguous, the sightings are mostly helicopters and ultralights, a few sightings are Venus or other celestial objects, and a handful of cases remain unresolved. That is not satisfying. It is not dramatic. But it is the minimum hypothesis needed to explain the evidence.

The Belgian wave was real. But "real" and "extraordinary" are not synonyms.
--O.R.
Pyrenees_Pierre
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#37▸ Posted: 27 Nov 2000, 11:33 CET
We are at an impasse, and perhaps that is where we should acknowledge the state of the evidence. The radar data is ambiguous. Meessen argues some of it is not easily explained by standard effects. The skeptics argue it is all explicable by system quirks and propagation effects. Both sides have points.

The visual sightings are numerous and credible. Many can be sorted into mundane causes. Some resist explanation. The pilots saw something silent and triangular. The engineer in Petit-Rechain saw the same thing. But "I saw it" is not a measurement, and we cannot map it against the radar without solving the radar problem first.

So here is what I conclude: the Belgian wave is the best-documented UFO sighting in modern history. It is not the best-explained. And until someone releases the operator's logs from Glons and the raw tapes from the F-16's onboard radar, it will remain unresolved. That is not a conspiracy. That is the nature of incomplete evidence.
--PP
radar_Reg
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#38▸ Posted: 07 Dec 2000, 15:19 GMT
Pierre is right. We have reached a point of diminishing returns on this thread. The evidence is in. The arguments are known. And the ambiguity remains.

I will say this for the record: I believe something real was reported over Belgium in March 1990. I believe the radar data shows a return that was not trivially explained. And I believe the visual sightings describe a coherent object, not a parade of misidentifications. But belief is not proof. And proof, in this case, requires data we do not have.

The skeptics have not closed the case. The believers have not opened it. And the truth, as is often the case with such matters, probably lies in admitting that the evidence is exactly as ambiguous as it appears. No simple explanation covers all of it. No complex explanation explains all of it. The Belgian wave will remain one of the best-documented and least-resolved sightings in the record.

That is not a failure. That is honesty.
--Reg
WroclawWatcher
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#39▸ Posted: 17 Dec 2000, 09:15 CET
I accept Reg and Pierre's conclusion, though I maintain the secret-aircraft hypothesis is not as implausible as Occams_Razorback suggests. But let me pose one final question to the group: if the data had been fully released, if every tape and every log were public, what would we expect to see? Would an anomalous propagation event show differently on tape than a real object? Would a classified aircraft show differently than an extraterrestrial one?

I suspect the answer is no. The tape shows what it shows. The interpretation depends on what we are willing to believe. In that sense, the Belgian wave is not a radar mystery. It is an epistemological mystery. We have the data. We do not have consensus on what it means.

That may be the real finding of this thread.
--WW
Anonymous Coward
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#40▸ Posted: 27 Dec 2000, 13:42 CET
I saw it. I know what I saw. Whether the radar proves it or explains it is not my concern. The object was there. The silence was real. The lights at the corners were real. And whatever explanation the skeptics and the believers settle on, it will not change what I witnessed that night.

For what it is worth, I am satisfied with this thread. The technicians have had their say. The believers and the skeptics have had their say. And the mystery remains a mystery. That seems right to me.
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