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PARALLAX  »  UFOLOGY & AERIAL PHENOMENA  »  Sightings & Case Files  »  The Belgian triangle wave -- F-16 radar locks, full chronology (sources in OP)
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The Belgian triangle wave -- F-16 radar locks, full chronology (sources in OP)
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WroclawWatcher
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From: Wrocław, PL
#25▸ Posted: 28 Jul 2000, 18:12 CET
I come at this from different angle. In 1989 and 1990, the Cold War was ending in name only. NATO was on high alert. The Soviet Union was still the Soviet Union for another year. And the Belgian airspace -- it sits between Germany and the Channel. It is precisely where you would test new aircraft. Especially new aircraft you did not want seen.

The F-117 Nighthawk was already public knowledge by 1990. But there were programs nobody knew about. Black budget money in the billions. Lockheed Skunk Works had prototypes that did not appear in unclassified literature until 1997 or later.

What if the Belgian wave was a secret US platform -- not extraterrestrial, not anomalous propagation, but classified? The US would never admit it. The radar would lock onto it because it is a real object. The pilots would see it because it is in the sky. And the sceptics would dismiss the radar data because they assume mundane explanations. But the mundane explanation is a black-budget testbed, not a weather inversion.
--WW
Occams_Razorback
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#26▸ Posted: 07 Aug 2000, 19:34 CST
WroclawWatcher, I respect the thought, but that's not Occam's Razor, that's Occam's Feather Duster. You're adding a layer of classification and secret testing on top of anomalous propagation and helicopters. Parsimony says: if the data fits known effects, don't invent unknown black budgets.

And here's the thing -- the US has never confirmed or denied operating in Belgian airspace in March 1990. They just don't comment on it. That's not the same as saying "yes, we were testing a secret stealth aircraft." That's what governments do when you ask them about anything classified.

The Nighthawk was already public. The B-2 bomber was in development but not flying in 1990 -- it made its first flight in '89, and if they were flying it over Belgium in '90, we'd have more sightings than just March. We don't. So what exactly are we testing?
--O.R.
Pyrenees_Pierre
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#27▸ Posted: 18 Aug 2000, 08:21 CET
The secret-aircraft hypothesis is seductive, but it explains nothing about the radar data. If it was a US aircraft, it would not defy the laws of physics to do so. The recorded accelerations -- the ones Meessen highlights -- are not consistent with any aircraft, classified or not. An F-16 pulls perhaps 9G in ideal conditions. The radar data shows something holding level flight and then jumping altitude by 3,000 feet in one second. That is not a maneuver. That is either an artifact or a misunderstanding of the data.

WroclawWatcher raises a good point about Cold War testing. But the skeptics are also right: if it was secret, why over Belgium? Why not over Nevada or the North Sea? Why over a densely populated region where you would be spotted by a thousand witnesses?

I think the secret-aircraft hypothesis is a distraction. The real question is the radar data. That is where the case lives or dies.
--PP
Anonymous Coward
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#28▸ Posted: 28 Aug 2000, 11:04 CET
I was there. I was in Petit-Rechain that night. I saw the thing. It was silent -- absolutely silent. I am an engineer, and I know helicopters. I know ultralights. I know what Venus looks like when it is bright. This was not any of those things. It moved without sound. The lights at the corners did not flicker like helicopter strobes.

And now I read that people think it was Venus. Or a weather inversion. Or a radar glitch. I am not an idiot. I saw it. It was real. And the people telling me it was a planet are the ones who should have to prove their case, not me.

The radar data does not matter to me. I saw it with my own eyes.
radar_Reg
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From: Lincolnshire, UK
#29▸ Posted: 07 Sep 2000, 14:19 GMT
To the engineer in Petit-Rechain: I believe you saw something. I do not doubt your eyes or your integrity. But an anecdotal sighting, however credible, is not the same as a measurement. And the radar data is a measurement. It can be wrong -- systematically, even -- but it can be checked. Your sighting cannot be. That is not a slight against you. That is the nature of the evidence.

The reason we focus on the radar is because radar is (in theory) objective. If we can understand what the radar saw, we can map it against the visual reports and learn something. If we stay in anecdote, we are just trading stories. Some of those stories will be accurate. Some will be confabulated. Most will be a blend. And we will never know which is which.

So please, keep your account. It matters. But let us also solve the radar problem. Then we can say: the radar saw X, the witnesses saw Y, and here is whether they are the same thing.
--Reg
WroclawWatcher
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#30▸ Posted: 17 Sep 2000, 16:48 CET
I want to return to the radar lock-on data, because I think Occams_Razorback has not addressed the full picture. The F-16 pilots reported locking onto a target. Multiple lock-ons. That is not a radar artifact by itself -- a radar lock is a sustained track, filtered through the aircraft's fire-control system. It requires a return strong enough and consistent enough to close a feedback loop.

An anomalous propagation event -- a temperature inversion -- it is not consistent. It shimmers. It breaks. It does not hold a lock for the twenty or thirty seconds that the pilots reported. So either the F-16 radar is less sophisticated than everyone assumes, or there was a real return there.

I do not know what it was. But I know what it was not. It was not a simple atmospheric effect. The lock-on rules that out.
--WW
Occams_Razorback
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#31▸ Posted: 27 Sep 2000, 18:33 CST
WroclawWatcher, I have to respectfully push back. The F-16 radar -- the APG-66 -- is a good system, but it is not infallible. It can lock onto a layer. It can lock onto two separate returns and blend them into one track. And here is the critical thing: the radar data we have comes from ground radar at Glons and Semmerzake, not the aircraft's onboard system. The recordings do not show the F-16's radar directly. They show the ground controller's interpretation of the F-16's reported position and the ground radar's own returns.

That is a crucial distinction. The F-16 pilots said they locked something. But the tape does not show the lock. It shows a blip at a location. That blip could be real. It could be a processing artifact introduced by the ground system. It could be ground clutter being filtered incorrectly.

Without the raw F-16 radar tape, we are working with a photocopy of a photocopy. And I don't base explanations on photocopies.
--O.R.
Pyrenees_Pierre
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From: Toulouse, FR
#32▸ Posted: 07 Oct 2000, 08:34 CET
Occams_Razorback is correct that the ground radar data is filtered. But Meessen has accounted for that in his analysis. He does not claim the raw tape is pristine. He says: given the known characteristics of the Glons and Semmerzake radars, given the known filters and processing, the residual phenomena still do not match the standard explanations for anomalous propagation.

This is not a claim that the object was extraterrestrial. This is a claim that the technical explanations advanced by skeptics are incomplete. Meessen is not a believer in flying saucers. He is a physicist. He reads data. And he says the data is not as easily dismissed as the skeptics claim.

I have read his papers three times. He does not overclaim. But he does not back down, either.
--PP
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