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PARALLAX  »  UFOLOGY & AERIAL PHENOMENA  »  Sightings & Case Files  »  Phoenix Lights -- five years on, the "flares" timeline still doesn't fit
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Phoenix Lights -- five years on, the "flares" timeline still doesn't fit
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MUFON_Gail
Field Researcher
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Joined: Aug 1999
From: Ohio, US
#33▸ Posted: 05 Aug 1997, 09:33 EST
FOIA responses are starting to arrive. The Maryland Air National Guard has confirmed Operation Snowbird occurred on the night of March 13. A-10 aircraft from the 162nd Fighter Squadron dropped LUU-2 illumination flares beginning at approximately 10 pm local time over the Barry Goldwater Range. The response is vague on specifics: exact altitudes, exact number of flares, exact duration -- all marked as "not available" or "operational details." Frances Barwood is pushing for more detailed responses. The cover is the same kind of cover we saw in the press conference mockery. Symington is stonewalling.
Gail
radar_Reg
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Posts: 380
Joined: May 2000
From: Lincolnshire, UK
#34▸ Posted: 08 Aug 1997, 14:22 GMT
So the military confirms the flares. That is significant. However, the vagueness on operational details is troubling. If they have nothing to hide, why not release the complete timeline, the complete number of flares, the descent rates? These are not classified. This is routine training data. The refusal to be specific suggests either: (a) they are uncomfortable with how their flares actually looked, or (b) there is something else they are not disclosing. I do not yet concede the 10 pm event to the flare explanation. I want numbers.
RF
Occams_Razorback
Resident Skeptic
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Joined: Apr 1998
From: Chicago, US
#35▸ Posted: 12 Aug 1997, 17:55 CST
I'm going to say this again because it keeps getting lost: EVEN IF the flares don't perfectly match the 10 pm visual descriptions, they could still BE the 10 pm event. People's memories are not precise. People in the dark do not judge distances and sizes and speeds accurately. The military was actively dropping flares at exactly the right time. That is not a coincidence. The flare explanation for 10 pm is probably correct. And if it is, then the 8:30 sighting stands completely alone with no conventional explanation. That should be the focus of serious investigation. But instead people here want to argue whether flares look like UFOs when maybe BOTH are true.
DesertGlass
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From: Phoenix AZ, US
#36▸ Posted: 18 Aug 1997, 21:10 MST
Nobody disputes that the military was dropping flares at 10 pm. The question is whether those flares could have created the VISUAL EFFECT described by hundreds of witnesses. And I will tell you something: when I see the governor mocking us with a rubber costume instead of answering questions, I do not trust the official story about ANYTHING. Not the flares, not the timing, not the military's vague responses. Symington showed his contempt for this city and its people. Frances Barwood is the only politician who deserves respect. She is calling for the truth. The rest of them are covering up.
Anonymous Coward
anon
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User ID: 92715618
From: a VPN, probably
#37▸ Posted: 22 Aug 1997, 12:33 MST
I saw both events. I was outside the whole evening. The 8:30 formation was strange -- dark, silent, massive. I couldn't tell you what it was. The 10 pm lights were different. They looked like... well, they looked like what people say flares look like. Different color, different behavior, scattered. Two completely different things. I don't know if the military explanation is right, but the EVENTS were different. Anyone who was actually outside could tell you that. The governor should have taken this seriously instead of making jokes.
MUFON_Gail
Field Researcher
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From: Ohio, US
#38▸ Posted: 30 Aug 1997, 11:44 EST
We are six months past the sighting now. The investigation is ongoing but the pattern is clear: (1) the 10 pm event is likely explained by the military flare deployment, though the details remain vague; (2) the 8:30 formation has NO conventional explanation on the table; (3) the governor's mockery has strengthened rather than weakened public conviction that something unusual occurred; (4) Frances Barwood's call for investigation is the most serious response from any elected official. I have more FOIA requests pending. We will keep pressing for complete answers. The truth is still out there and we will find it.
Gail - MUFON Arizona Section
DesertGlass
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Joined: Apr 2000
From: Phoenix AZ, US
#39▸ Posted: 13 Mar 1998, 20:30 MST
One year ago tonight. I went out on the patio again at 8:30 and just stood there. Clear sky, the same stars. Nothing came over. A year of FOIA requests, a year of the governor's costume joke being the only official response anyone remembers, a year of new witnesses still finding this thread and saying "me too, I never told anyone." We know more than we did: the 10 pm flares are nailed down, the 8:30 formation is not. That is genuine progress, even if it doesn't feel like it. I'm keeping the log going. Thank you to everyone who has trusted me with their account this year.
DesertGlass
DesertGlass
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From: Phoenix AZ, US
#40▸ Posted: 03 Mar 1999, 14:22 MST
I've been sifting through the witness statements from the 8:30pm sighting again. We now have confirmed reports from Prescott down through Phoenix proper and into the areas south of the city. The formation held its shape across nearly 300 miles. I'm maintaining a spreadsheet of all corroborated timing, position, and description. If anyone has footage or stills they haven't yet shared, now is the time. The skeptic community is not resting.
--DesertGlass
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