 Member ◆◆◆ Posts: 720 Joined: Nov 1999 From: Tromsø, NO |
#1▸ Posted: 15 Nov 1999, 08:00 CET
I live at 66 degrees north. Winter is five months. Last week it was minus twenty-three Celsius and that is normal for January. I have spent more nights in the cold than most people here have spent nights in houses. So I will tell you what matters and what is fantasy.
If you think you will survive minus twenty with the gear in magazine ads, you will die. I am not being dramatic, I am being precise. Cold is a teacher and it teaches through pain and then through stopping.
Layering: base layer must be wool or synthetic. Cotton kills -- it holds moisture against your skin. Three layers done correctly beats eight done wrong. Fire: you will not survive minus twenty without heat, full stop. Wet wood does not burn; know how to split to the dry centre or carry prepared fuel. Shelter: in minus twenty you need an interior that traps your heat -- a quinzee, a snow cave, a small tent that closes. Water is not your problem in winter, cold is, but it takes serious fuel to melt snow. Batteries die at minus fifteen -- they live against your body until you need them.
And your mind: people who survive cold are calm. They do not try to hike out in conditions that will kill them. The hardest part of winter survival cannot be bought in a store.
vinter_Vidar -- 66 north, 25 winters |
Anonymous Coward  (unregistered) User ID: 52680016 From: a VPN, probably |
#2▸ Posted: 16 Feb 2000, 15:17 EST
This is the most honest thing I have read about winter survival. I am in Montana, similar conditions at elevation, and every word is true. One thing I would add: if you have never trained in these conditions, do not make your first winter bug-out at minus twenty. Do smaller trips at minus five and ten and learn what your body does first.
|
 Veteran Member ◆◆◆◆◆ Posts: 12,880 Joined: Oct 1998 From: Montana, US |
#3▸ Posted: 20 May 2000, 08:34 MST
Vidar, I run a homestead at 7000 feet in Montana. Shorter winter than yours but similar cold, and I agree with every word. The synthetic-vs-cotton point is critical -- people take it as an abstract rule until they are wet and cold and finally understand.
My question: you mention prepared fuel. What do you use, how much do you carry, and can you run a camp stove the same way in deep cold?
BugOutBarb |
 Member ◆◆◆ Posts: 720 Joined: Nov 1999 From: Tromsø, NO |
#4▸ Posted: 21 Aug 2000, 15:51 CET
For fuel: a mix -- split dried firewood, compressed fire-starter blocks (very reliable in wind and wet), and birch bark. Roughly enough for one night of fire; longer than that and I must harvest, which means I must know the forest I am in.
Camp stoves: yes, with caveats. Cold thickens fuel. White gas works better than propane in extreme cold -- I have seen propane cartridges quit around minus fifteen. And a stove in a shelter is not only for water, it warms the air. Most people vastly underestimate winter fuel needs. They plan for a sunny afternoon and then meet a night at minus twenty.
vinter_Vidar |
 Member ◆◆◆ Posts: 880 Joined: Jul 1999 From: rural Montana, US |
#5▸ Posted: 22 Nov 2000, 08:08 CET
Vidar, a solar question. I am building off-grid in Sweden and worried about winter -- in December the sun barely clears the horizon. Do you rely on stored summer charge, or another approach?
offgrid_Otto |
 Member ◆◆◆ Posts: 720 Joined: Nov 1999 From: Tromsø, NO |
#6▸ Posted: 24 Feb 2001, 15:25 CET
Solar alone does not work for winter at our latitude. December and January have almost no sun. You need supplement: wind (reliable in winter), a generator (needs fuel), or you drastically cut winter power use. What I do: batteries from summer, but in winter I reduce to essentials -- lights, minimal electronics, heat from fire. No one lives at 66 north in winter on the assumption of 2000 watts available. That is fantasy. For a bug-out it is simpler: you have no panels with you. You have fire, or a generator, or nothing. Choose accordingly. This is not a failure of the technology -- it is understanding how the north works.
vinter_Vidar |
 Senior Member ◆◆◆◆ Posts: 6,402 Joined: Mar 1999 From: undisclosed, US |
#7▸ Posted: 28 May 2001, 08:42 CST
Vidar, an OPSEC question. If you are trying to stay undetected, how does winter change it? Does fire give away position?
QH |
 Member ◆◆◆ Posts: 720 Joined: Nov 1999 From: Tromsø, NO |
#8▸ Posted: 29 Aug 2001, 15:59 CET
Fire is always a position risk, and worse in winter -- smoke is sharper against a clear cold sky, heat signature more obvious. But in minus twenty you probably need fire to survive. That is the central tension. My answer: if you are bugging out in winter, detection is almost certainly not your primary problem -- survival is. Make fire when detection risk is lowest, cook and warm at once, stop before full dark. If you truly must stay hidden in extreme cold, that is a different problem and I would argue it is not possible for more than a few days. You cannot hide and survive minus twenty. Choose one.
vinter_Vidar |