 Member ◆◆◆ Posts: 1,110 Joined: Aug 2000 From: Huntsville AL, US |
#1▸ Posted: 30 Jul 1995, 09:12 GMT
Worth laying this out straight, because the cold-fusion story gets mangled in both directions. March 1989: Martin Fleischmann and Stanley Pons hold a press conference in Utah and announce they have produced fusion at room temperature -- excess heat from electrolysis of heavy water on a palladium electrode. The claim is that deuterium packs into the palladium lattice tightly enough to fuse.
The world goes briefly mad. Labs everywhere drop what they are doing to replicate. Within weeks the trouble starts: most cannot reproduce the excess heat, and the nuclear signatures you would expect from fusion are not there at anything like the claimed levels. By the end of the year the field is largely discredited and Pons and Fleischmann's reputations with it.
So six years on, what is actually left? I want to separate the real open questions from the wishful thinking.
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 Member ◆◆◆ Posts: 152 Joined: Apr 1996 From: Michigan, US |
#2▸ Posted: 31 Jul 1995, 14:44 GMT
The whole fight lives in the calorimetry. Measuring a small excess of heat -- a fraction of a watt -- coming out of an electrolysis cell over what the electrical input accounts for is genuinely hard. You have to model every loss path, recombination at the electrodes, stirring, evaporation, where your thermometer sits.
That cuts both ways. It means the early positive results could easily be measurement error -- and a lot of them were shown to be. It also means a sloppy negative is not proof of nothing. But the burden is on the people claiming excess heat to show it survives a closed, well-instrumented energy balance. Most claims did not. A few stubborn ones are still argued over.
engineer |
 Administrator ◆◆◆◆◆◆ Posts: 18,204 Joined: Mar 1998 From: Colorado, US |
#3▸ Posted: 01 Aug 1995, 20:17 GMT
The original sin was the press conference. They announced by podium and newspaper before the work was peer reviewed, before other labs had the methods in enough detail to even try properly. That poisoned everything that came after.
It put thousands of scientists in a race to replicate something they could only half see, it turned a quiet hard measurement into a media circus, and when the replications failed the backlash was just as public and just as overheated. Whatever was or was not in those cells, the way it was announced guaranteed it would be judged by spectacle instead of evidence.
admin |
 Resident Skeptic ◆◆◆◆◆ Posts: 16,720 Joined: Apr 1998 From: Chicago, US |
#4▸ Posted: 03 Aug 1995, 01:50 GMT
The burden here is enormous and it has not been met. Extraordinary claim: a tabletop process that overturns what we understand about fusion. The replications mostly failed. The positive results cluster near the noise floor of a hard measurement, and they do not reproduce cleanly when the calorimetry is tightened.
That is not how a real effect usually behaves. A real effect gets easier to see as you improve the apparatus, not harder. Cold fusion has done the opposite for six years. I am not saying it is metaphysically impossible. I am saying that on the evidence we have, the most likely explanation is measurement error plus very strong wishful thinking, and nothing I have seen moves it off that.
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 Member ◆◆ Posts: 53 Joined: Feb 1995 From: the van (local only) |
#5▸ Posted: 03 Aug 1995, 12:30 GMT
I sell a tin that is meant to make heavy things lighter. It shifts better than it works and I am honest with people about which is which. So I have a soft spot for Pons and Fleischmann -- wanting it to be true is the cheap part, it is the calorimetry that costs you, every single time.
If anyone here is actually building a cell rather than arguing about one, I have a few palladium offcuts and a reel of heavy magnet wire going spare. Not much, collection only. You know where the lists are.
collection only, serious builders |
 Member ◆◆◆ Posts: 176 Joined: Feb 1996 From: Norway |
#6▸ Posted: 04 Aug 1995, 07:23 GMT
The physics objection that never got answered: where are the neutrons. If you were really fusing deuterium at the rate needed to make the claimed heat, the cell would be a serious radiation source -- neutrons and gammas at levels that would have hospitalized the experimenters. They were not hospitalized. The radiation was not there at the heat levels claimed.
You cannot have the energy output of fusion without the nuclear products of fusion. That mismatch -- lots of claimed heat, essentially no commensurate nuclear signature -- is the single hardest thing for the believers to explain, and "it is a new kind of reaction with no products" is not an explanation, it is a wish.
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 Member ◆◆ Posts: 64 Joined: Jan 1995 From: a garage, somewhere |
#7▸ Posted: 05 Aug 1995, 12:56 GMT
And there it is, the establishment closing ranks. You all assume error because the alternative is inconvenient. Pons and Fleischmann were serious electrochemists, not cranks, and they were destroyed for getting a result the energy industry could not allow to be true. Ask who benefits from cold fusion staying dead. A cheap clean power source threatens trillions. The neutrons argument assumes the reaction has to look like hot fusion -- maybe it does not. They buried it because it was real.
free energy is a human right |
 Member ◆◆ Posts: 71 Joined: Oct 1997 From: Tennessee, US |
#8▸ Posted: 06 Aug 1995, 18:29 GMT
Don, I want it to be real as much as anyone -- I am the guy in his garage rooting for the underdog. But I have to be honest about what would convince me, and it is not motive. "Who benefits" is not evidence. A working cell that produces more energy out than in, sealed, instrumented by someone neutral, repeatable on demand -- that would do it. Six years and nobody has put that on the table. The suppression story is easier to believe than the calorimetry is to get right, and that worries me about the suppression story.
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