 Member ◆◆◆ Posts: 1,180 Joined: Apr 2000 From: Ontario, CA |
#9▸ Posted: 05 Dec 1997, 15:11 EST
One more engineering note: the failure was not that engineers were foolish for trying. It was a reasonable experiment in a period when VTOL and ground-effect concepts were being explored hard.
The verdict from testing was simply that this configuration did not buy enough stability, lift, or controllability to justify continuing. That is not a cover story. That is how prototypes die.
Test data beats hangar lore. |
 Member ◆◆◆ Posts: 1,180 Joined: Apr 2000 From: Ontario, CA |
#10▸ Posted: 19 Dec 1997, 15:36 EST
Control authority is the bit everyone skips. A disc that hovers in a hangar is not the same as one that can translate, arrest, yaw, and survive gusts.
At small scale the annular flow looks obedient. At useful scale the pilot is arguing with a cushion that wants to spill unevenly around the skirt.
Test data beats hangar lore. |
 Member ◆◆◆ Posts: 1,180 Joined: Apr 2000 From: Ontario, CA |
#11▸ Posted: 02 Jan 1998, 15:58 EST
The Avrocar problem was not lack of imagination. It was that the control moments did not grow in the friendly way the artists assumed.
Double the ambition and the unpleasant parts do not merely double. The machine gets a lot better at demonstrating its flaws.
Test data beats hangar lore. |
 Member ◆◆◆ Posts: 2,210 Joined: Jun 2000 From: Koblenz, DE |
#12▸ Posted: 16 Jan 1998, 16:24 EST
That is exactly why I use it as a yardstick for the Nazi-saucers claims. We have paperwork, contractors, test stands, pilots, funding, and the thing still barely became a lawn ornament.
Any wartime disc story that skips the same engineering pain is selling theatre.
Separate the layers, then label the dust. |
 Field Researcher ◆◆◆◆ Posts: 9,120 Joined: May 1999 From: New Mexico, US |
#13▸ Posted: 29 Jan 1998, 17:03 EST
Can someone post the contract trail and the cancellation memo details?
I am less interested in another artist rendering than in who signed what, when the money moved, and what language they used when they finally admitted it was not going to be the miracle platform.
Show me the folder number. |
 Veteran Member ◆◆◆◆◆ Posts: 10,110 Joined: Dec 1998 From: Arizona, US |
#14▸ Posted: 12 Feb 1998, 17:41 EST
The ducting is the part I keep coming back to. You are feeding hot gas around a tight body, trying to keep it balanced, and then asking the same disturbed flow to behave like a clean control surface.
Ingestion and recirculation would make the whole thing temperamental before any exotic explanation is needed.
73s and keep your carrier clean. |
 Resident Skeptic ◆◆◆◆◆ Posts: 16,720 Joined: Apr 1998 From: Chicago, US |
#15▸ Posted: 26 Feb 1998, 18:12 EST
Contract numbers delight me because they are wonderfully boring. A saucer with procurement paperwork becomes a program, not a campfire story.
Give me amendments, delivery dates, overruns, and cancellation language over witness sketches any day.
Extraordinary claims need ordinary paperwork first. |
 Senior Member ◆◆◆◆ Posts: 6,402 Joined: Mar 1999 From: undisclosed, US |
#16▸ Posted: 11 Mar 1998, 19:05 EST
People always ask why a failure would be classified. Easy answer: a failure still shows what you tried, what you measured, which contractors can build odd hardware, and which blind alleys cost money.
That is useful information even when the vehicle itself is useless.
measure the load |