 Member ◆◆◆ Posts: 3,410 Joined: Feb 2001 From: [you first] |
#1▸ Posted: 02 Jan 1995, 09:12 EST
OK, I'll bite. Everyone and their brother reports a black triangle in the sky these days -- low, slow, silent, hovering over power lines and interstate highways. The usual suspects say "secret military." Fine. But how much of this actually holds up?
I'm calling it: 90 percent of the black triangle reports are just the F-117 Nighthawk at weird angles. Add in the B-2 Spirit and some classified prototypes nobody will ever confirm, and you've explained the whole thing. The "UFO" is just a black delta-wing sitting nose-on to an observer 30,000 feet up at dusk. Presto. Mystery solved.
I don't buy the "I saw something truly unknown" angle. Not anymore. So convince me the residue is real. What's the ONE black triangle sighting you think the F-117 can't explain?
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 Member ◆◆◆ Posts: 380 Joined: May 2000 From: Lincolnshire, UK |
#2▸ Posted: 03 Jan 1995, 08:42 EST
TrustNo1, you're closer than you think. A lot of the triangle sightings DO line up with known airframes. The F-117's planform is a flat diamond from dead-on. Nose-on, it reads as a triangular silhouette. The B-2 is a flying wing, which looks like a blunt wedge from certain angles. I've seen radar traces from test flights that match witness descriptions almost exactly.
The trick is angle, lighting, and distance. Most observers don't understand how perspective compresses and distorts an aircraft's actual shape. An F-117 banking at altitude with its landing lights on? To someone on the ground, that's a "black triangle" with white lights hovering silent. But it's doing 300 knots. The observer's brain just isn't wired to clock the speed right. You're right to be skeptical. But skepticism cuts both ways.
long-time lurker |
 Resident Skeptic ◆◆◆◆◆ Posts: 16,720 Joined: Apr 1998 From: Chicago, US |
#3▸ Posted: 04 Jan 1995, 08:12 EST
This is the nail in the coffin, though, and it's TIMING. The black triangle wave didn't start until the mid-80s. The F-117 entered operational service in 1983. The B-2 was public knowledge by 1988. Suddenly you get reports from every corner of the continental US -- Arizona, upstate New York, Texas, the Midwest. All delta-wing, all silent, all low and slow at times.
Coincidence? No. You get the aircraft into the air, moving between bases, testing new procedures, and you get eyeballs on it. Most people have never seen a stealth fighter. They don't have a reference frame. So they report what they think they saw: a UFO. The geography of the sightings traces a path through the western test ranges and points between. That's not alien behavior. That's a test-flight schedule.
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 Member ◆◆◆ Posts: 142 Joined: May 1996 From: Wichita, KS |
#4▸ Posted: 05 Jan 1995, 07:42 EST
Let me add something from the flight deck side. When you're looking up at an aircraft from the ground, especially at night or dusk, you lose all altitude cues instantly. A 1,000-foot pass looks identical to a 30,000-foot pass if the lighting is right. Likewise you lose speed cues. An F-117 in a shallow dive looks slow. An F-117 climbing out looks like it's sitting still.
Angle the nose down or up 20 degrees, add some cloud cover and streetlights below, and your brain is guessing. The human eye is terrible at range estimation in 3D space when there's no reference frame. A small, fast object close by looks identical to a large, slow object far away. It's pure physics. This is how witnesses convince themselves they saw something hovering silent over a town for fifteen minutes. It never hovered. It transited in under a minute. Their eye and brain just couldn't clock it.
retired military pilot |
 Administrator ◆◆◆◆◆◆ Posts: 18,204 Joined: Mar 1998 From: Colorado, US |
#5▸ Posted: 06 Jan 1995, 07:12 EST
All right, I buy most of that. I do. The F-117 and B-2 explain the lion's share of daylight and dusk sightings. The geography checks. The timing checks. I'll grant you 80, maybe 85 percent of reports.
But there's a subset that doesn't fold so easily. Low-altitude, very slow, no sound, very large -- as big as a football field or bigger. A silent hover. Over populated areas for minutes, not seconds. Witnessed by pilots, by cops, by people who KNOW what aircraft look like and sound like. The F-117 makes noise. A lot of it. The B-2 is fast when it needs to be. Both have acoustic signatures. So I'm not saying "aliens," but I'm also not ready to stamp SOLVED on the whole thing. What explains the low, silent, huge ones?
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 Field Researcher ◆◆◆◆ Posts: 8,044 Joined: Aug 1999 From: Ohio, US |
#6▸ Posted: 07 Jan 1995, 06:42 EST
SkepWell's raising the right question, but we have to talk about witness quality. Some of the best reports come from pilots and law enforcement -- people trained to observe, to estimate distances, to distinguish aircraft types. Those reports are solid.
But you also get reports from people who saw a light and worked backward to "huge triangle." The signal-to-noise ratio is brutal. MUFON's database is thousands of sightings, and maybe 10 percent have the corroboration and witness pedigree that stands scrutiny. So when TrustNo1 says "the F-117 explains most of this," he's probably right for the noisiest 80 percent. But the careful cases -- a pilot or a cop with no reason to lie, just "I saw something I couldn't identify" -- those still sit outside the usual suspects. That's the residue worth respecting.
investigator |
 Member ◆◆◆ Posts: 3,410 Joined: Feb 2001 From: [you first] |
#7▸ Posted: 08 Jan 1995, 06:12 EST
OK, I'm half-convinced. You've explained the mass sightings. The noise, the timing, the geography -- it all points to F-117 and B-2 operations plus test flights of stuff they'll never admit to. Most of the "mysterious triangle" panic is just ordinary people seeing extraordinary aircraft and losing their bearings.
But SkepWell and Gail are right: there's a leftover 10 percent. The cases with trained observers, multiple witnesses, consistent descriptions across years and geography. The slow ones. The silent ones. I can't explain those away as easily. So I'm not a true believer. I'm just a guy who thinks 90 percent of the phenomenon is mundane and 10 percent is something. Maybe classified. Maybe misidentified. Maybe actually unknown. I don't claim to know.
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 Resident Skeptic ◆◆◆◆◆ Posts: 16,720 Joined: Apr 1998 From: Chicago, US |
#8▸ Posted: 09 Jan 1995, 05:43 EST
And that's exactly where we should be. Ninety percent explained is a good night's work. The residue isn't unexplained -- it's unverified. There's a difference. Unverified means we don't have enough data to conclude anything. It doesn't mean "alien." It doesn't mean "conspiracy." It just means we need better data.
Most of the careful cases -- the pilot sightings, the law-enforcement reports -- are still hearsay after the fact. No instrumental data. No corroboration from air traffic control or radar. Just a story, however credible the teller. That's not enough to overturn the mundane explanation for the majority. So believe what you want, TrustNo1. But the 10 percent sitting outside the explanation isn't proof of anything yet. It's just the question mark. And we can live with question marks.
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