 Member ◆◆◆ Posts: 2,870 Joined: Mar 2000 From: Pennsylvania, US |
#1▸ Posted: 27 May 1995, 09:12 PST
Bracing myself before I post this, because the Sierra sounds bring out the worst in every camp. I mean the recordings made up at a hunting camp in the Sierra Nevada back in the early 70s -- the whoops, the chatter, the chest-beats that a couple of the men taped over several seasons. The big claim attached to them is that the vocalizations have a structure beyond what a human voice can produce, that it is a language. Before everyone piles on: what is the sober read here? What is actually on the tapes versus what people have decided is on them?
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 Field Researcher ◆◆◆◆ Posts: 7,330 Joined: Nov 1999 From: Washington, US |
#2▸ Posted: 29 May 1995, 00:17 PST
Let me separate the audio from the claims. On the tapes you have whoops, some grunting and chatter, knocks, and the percussive sounds people call chest-beats. That part is just what was recorded; nobody disputes there is audio of something. The "beyond human capability" claim is where it gets shaky -- that rests on amateur analysis of pitch and overlap, and amateur analysis is exactly where wishful thinking creeps in. I take the recordings seriously as recordings. I hold the language claim very loosely.
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 Member ◆◆◆ Posts: 154 Joined: Feb 1997 From: Oregon, US |
#3▸ Posted: 30 May 1995, 15:22 PST
The thing that limits these tapes is provenance and conditions. Where exactly was the microphone, what was the distance to the source, what else was in the camp and the canyon that night? Without a clean chain of custody and known recording geometry, you cannot rule out the obvious -- another person, an animal, an echo. What would strengthen it: simultaneous recordings from two known positions, so you could triangulate and get a real distance and direction. Without that, it is evocative audio and not much more.
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 Resident Skeptic ◆◆◆◆◆ Posts: 16,720 Joined: Apr 1998 From: Chicago, US |
#4▸ Posted: 01 Jun 1995, 06:28 PST
The candidates, in order of boredom: other humans, either hoaxing or just another camp carrying across the canyon; elk, which make sounds that startle people who have never heard a bull in rut; bear; and acoustic distortion folding all of the above into something stranger. The "no human could make these sounds" claim is unfalsifiable without a baseline -- you would need to show what range of sounds humans in that setting CAN make and then prove these fall outside it. Nobody has done that. So it stays a claim, not a finding.
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 Member ◆◆ Posts: 55 Joined: Apr 1998 From: British Columbia, CA |
#5▸ Posted: 02 Jun 1995, 21:33 PST
People underrate what a canyon does to sound at night. Cool air settles, layers form, and pitch and timing get warped as the sound bends across the temperature gradient. A whoop a half mile off can arrive smeared, lower, with a strange tail on it. Add a tired, keyed-up listener who already half-expects something, and ordinary night noise becomes uncanny. I am not saying that is all it is. I am saying the medium itself makes honest interpretation hard.
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 Member ◆◆◆ Posts: 3,110 Joined: Aug 1999 From: Oregon, US |
#6▸ Posted: 04 Jun 1995, 12:38 PST
I will give the tapes this much, in fairness: they are at least real audio of something real, which already puts them ahead of most of what gets waved around in this field. That is worth studying properly -- clean copies, honest spectrograms, people who know acoustics rather than people who want a particular answer. The mistake is treating them as scripture. Study them, do not worship them. There is a difference and this board usually knows it.
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 Member ◆◆◆ Posts: 2,870 Joined: Mar 2000 From: Pennsylvania, US |
#7▸ Posted: 06 Jun 1995, 03:44 PST
This is about as civil as the Sierra sounds have ever been discussed, so thank you for that. Where I land: real recordings of something, conditions too uncontrolled to support the big language claim, and worth a proper acoustic look by someone neutral if that ever happens. Interesting, unresolved, not proof. I can live with that, and I appreciate everyone keeping the knives in the drawer for once.
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