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PARALLAX  »  CRYPTOZOOLOGY  »  North American Cryptids  »  my grandfather logged in the PNW his whole life and never saw one
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my grandfather logged in the PNW his whole life and never saw one
Tom_Whitcomb
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Posts: 73
Joined: Jun 1996
From: Ohio, US
#1▸ Posted: 28 Jun 2000, 09:12 GMT
My grandfather logged in the Pacific Northwest for forty years. Spent every working day in the woods from the 1950s through the 1990s, most of it in the Cascades and the ranges around there. He knew timber, he knew animal sign, he could read a forest like most people read a newspaper. Never once saw a sasquatch. Never found a print he could not account for. And he was not the type to keep quiet -- he would have been the first one telling stories around the dinner table if he had.

I bring this up not to be a wise guy, but because it seems like fair data. The animal is supposedly out there. My grandfather was exactly the kind of person who should have encountered it or its sign, if it were anywhere near as common as some reports suggest. The absence bothers me more than the sightings do.
SquatchFieldNotes
Field Researcher
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Joined: Nov 1999
From: Washington, US
#2▸ Posted: 30 Jun 2000, 14:53 GMT
I hear what you are saying, and your grandfather's experience deserves respect. But I have corresponded with enough old-timers in the logging community to tell you -- plenty of them saw things. They just never said anything. Fear of the laugh is real, and it was worse thirty years ago than it is now. A man in that world does not go to the tavern and announce he saw something that will get him called crazy by every other guy on the crew.

Your grandfather may have seen tracks or sign and read them differently. Or he may have been one of the lucky ones who never crossed paths with one. Absence of evidence is not evidence of absence, especially when the animal is supposedly solitary and wary and the forest is vast.
keep looking
Dana_Frick
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From: Oregon, US
#3▸ Posted: 02 Jul 2000, 20:35 GMT
Let me frame this differently. If the population is genuinely small and the range is genuinely huge, then the absence of sightings in one man's lifetime is actually not that surprising statistically. A very rare animal can exist across thousands of square miles and still leave one person untouched by it.

The harder question is what your grandfather should have found in terms of physical evidence. Hair. Scat. Bones. A creature that large, even a rare one, produces a trail. And that is where the skeptical position gets weight. Over forty years, over that much territory, the absence of physical evidence is more telling than the absence of a sighting. A sighting is subjective. A skull or a tuft of hair is not.
Holt_R
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From: Tennessee, US
#4▸ Posted: 05 Jul 2000, 02:17 GMT
My family's been in timber up here since my great-grandfather. I have got relatives on both sides of this argument sitting around the same table at Thanksgiving. My uncle swears he saw one in 1973 near the Lewis River. My other uncle, worked the same country, said he never saw anything that could not be explained. Both good woodsmen. Both had no reason to lie. I do not know how to resolve that except to say the experience varies. Your grandfather's forty years is significant. But it is also just one man, in one part of the range, over one span of time. It is a real data point, not proof.
PNW born and raised
treeshadow
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From: British Columbia, CA
#5▸ Posted: 07 Jul 2000, 07:58 GMT
I think Tom has a point that deserves more weight than the "loggers stay quiet" explanation can fully carry. If this animal exists and has existed for decades, even if it is rare and wary, it should have left something harder than eyewitness accounts. A skeleton. Hair and skin samples. Footprint casts that do not match any known animal. We have bears, lions, wolves in these ranges. We find their remains. We find their sign. The absence of physical evidence over this many years in this much territory is the real silence. Your grandfather's silence is part of that pattern, but it is not the only part.
elkcamp_77
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From: Idaho, US
#6▸ Posted: 09 Jul 2000, 13:40 GMT
One thing worth considering: the record is skewed toward sightings because people do not write books or start investigations around the things they did not see. Your grandfather never found a sasquatch, so there is no article, no filing away of the story. But the guy who thought he saw one in 1987, that gets told, gets repeated, gets amplified. We are looking at a collection that has been selected for the positive cases. That does not mean the animal is not real, but it means we should not expect the record to look random. It looks like what it is: a pile of sightings and stories, with the negative cases quietly filtered out.
Tom_Whitcomb
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Joined: Jun 1996
From: Ohio, US
#7▸ Posted: 11 Jul 2000, 19:22 GMT
I appreciate this. I came in thinking I had the trump card, and I do not. Dana's right that a genuinely rare animal would not necessarily cross my grandfather's path, statistically speaking. And SquatchFieldNotes is right that loggers in his time would not necessarily talk about it. That is a fair point I was not giving enough weight.

But treeshadow and elkcamp_77 are hitting on something that sticks with me. The physical evidence gap. And the selection bias in what gets recorded. My grandfather's forty years of nothing will not settle this. But it is part of the pattern, and I think that pattern -- the absence of the hard stuff -- is worth sitting with. Anyway, I think this conversation has said what it needed to say.
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