 Member ◆◆ Posts: 54 Joined: Aug 1997 From: Egypt |
#1▸ Posted: 28 Aug 1995, 09:12 CET
I see the fringe sites keep pushing Baalbek as some sort of ancient mystery -- "the Romans could never have built this, the blocks are too heavy." I am going to lay out what we actually have on the ground, because the answer is sitting right there in the quarry, a few hundred metres from the temple itself.
The site: the Roman temple of Jupiter at Baalbek, Lebanon. The famous Trilithon is three massive blocks in the podium wall -- each roughly 21 metres long, about 800 tons. They are precisely cut, fitted without mortar, sitting in a Roman temple foundation dated by inscriptions and coins to the first century.
The key point that gets skipped: in the quarry just down the hill, there is another giant block still half-cut from the bedrock. The locals call it the Stone of the Pregnant Woman. It is larger than the Trilithon blocks and it lies exactly where it was abandoned, still attached to the living rock at one end, tool marks visible. That block did not get moved. That is the evidence that humans quarried these stones, attempted to move them, and sometimes abandoned the work. It is not mysterious. It is industrial.
Baalbek born and raised |
 Member ◆◆◆ Posts: 176 Joined: Feb 1996 From: Norway |
#2▸ Posted: 30 Aug 1995, 09:51 CET
Aziz is right, and people keep forgetting the most important variable: distance. Moving an 800-ton block across a continent, over mountains, would be a historical miracle. Moving it a few hundred metres downhill on a prepared roadbed with levers, sledges, rollers and massed labor is genuinely hard work -- but it is documented. The Romans did this kind of thing on imperial projects.
You do not move the block until the quarry work is done and the roadbed is prepared. You use teams of workers, mechanical advantage, the slope working for you. The stone at Baalbek is not defying physics. It is defying people's intuition about what "ancient" should mean.
engineer |
 Member ◆◆ Posts: 61 Joined: Jul 1996 From: Peru |
#3▸ Posted: 01 Sep 1995, 10:30 CET
Halvorsen hits it. I work with stone -- not at that scale, but the principles are identical. The difference between moving a block across a prepared site and moving it hundreds of kilometres is the difference between carpentry and aerospace.
Once your quarry is on-site or very close, the problem shrinks dramatically. You are not transporting the mass across distance, you are moving it through space you control. You build your roadbed exactly as you need it, position your capstans and lever points. The stone still in the quarry at Baalbek proves this was happening on-site. That is not a mystery block. That is a work record.
stone, family trade |
 Member ◆◆◆ Posts: 612 Joined: Sep 2001 From: Durham, UK |
#4▸ Posted: 03 Sep 1995, 11:09 CET
The Roman engineering context matters. We have direct evidence of Roman crane technology from the Haterii relief and from Vitruvius. Roman cranes lifted enormous loads -- not single 800-ton monoliths, but distributed and staged lifting were part of the toolkit.
More to the point, the Trilithon is integral to the Roman podium. The temple is dated by inscription. There is no chronological mystery. The blocks are Roman-era work, fitted to a Roman structure, in a Roman complex. The fringe hypothesis that they are "pre-Roman" keeps colliding with the basic fact that they are part of a dated Roman building.
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 Member ◆◆ Posts: 57 Joined: Mar 1996 From: Poland |
#5▸ Posted: 05 Sep 1995, 11:49 CET
I want to push back on the "ancient lost civilization" angle directly, because the chronology does not work backwards the way people suggest. The fringe case would require the Romans to have built their Jupiter temple around an alien pre-existing megastructure -- to have integrated it into their design. The evidence does not show that. The temple is a coherent Roman design and the Trilithon is part of it from the foundation up. The straightforward reading requires no gymnastics. The fringe reading requires a great deal.
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 Member ◆◆ Posts: 244 Joined: Jun 2000 From: Aarhus, DK |
#6▸ Posted: 07 Sep 1995, 12:28 CET
Stratigraphy is boring but decisive. The temple sits on a prepared platform. Below it, in the foundations and rubble layers, you find Roman-period pottery, coins, construction debris. You do not find pre-Roman settlement layers suggesting an older structure was there first.
The Trilithon is part of the podium wall, part of the foundation of a temple whose building program runs across known Roman reigns, contemporary with Roman concrete and masons' marks. It is consistent with a single Roman construction program, not the incorporation of an older megalithic structure.
stratigraphy |
Anonymous Coward  (unregistered) User ID: 22884724 From: a VPN, probably |
#7▸ Posted: 09 Sep 1995, 13:07 CET
800 TONS. No crane on earth can lift that even today. Explain it.
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 Member ◆◆ Posts: 64 Joined: Mar 1997 From: Malta |
#8▸ Posted: 11 Sep 1995, 13:47 CET
The quarry-next-to-the-monument pattern is the recurring giveaway across sites. You see it at Malta, at the British stone circles, at Carnac. When a massive structure is built, there is usually a quarry very close by, and the unfinished blocks and tool marks are the record of the labor.
Baalbek is the same pattern. The Stone of the Pregnant Woman is unfinished and in place because work was abandoned, or because they had the three blocks they wanted. The tool marks match the finished blocks. As for the Anonymous post -- "no crane today" misses the point entirely: nobody lifted these straight up. They were quarried beside the wall and moved level, on prepared ground, by people. It is not magic. It is craft.
megalith notes |