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PARALLAX  »  ESOTERICA, ENERGY & PROPHECY  »  Divination, Tarot & the I Ching  »  Tarot as structured RANDOMNESS, not fortune-telling (drop the carnival framing)
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Tarot as structured RANDOMNESS, not fortune-telling (drop the carnival framing)
mod_Aoife
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From: Cork, IE
#1▸ Posted: 16 Apr 1997, 19:00 GMT
Tarot. And i am going to ask you to drop the carnival framing for the length of one thread, as a favour to a tired moderator.

Not "what do the cards SAY about your future" -- they say nothing, they are printed cardboard. What they ARE is a structured randomiser aimed at your own pattern-matching: a forced walk through seventy-eight archetypes that makes your mind look at a problem from corners it would lazily skip on its own. That is a genuine cognitive tool, and it requires not a single drop of the supernatural, which is exactly how i -- a moderator on an evidence board -- can keep a deck and a clear conscience in the same drawer.

Read it as a method, not a fortune. Razorback, you are welcome in this thread, but you have to say the word "Forer" kindly at least once, and you have to admit that "a tool that defeats your own bias about where to look" is not nothing. Deal?
Moderator · Cork
Occams_Razorback
Resident Skeptic
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From: Chicago, US
#2▸ Posted: 02 May 1997, 14:24 CST
Deal. Forer, kindly: people accept vague general statements as personally meaningful, especially when they are anxious and the reader is warm. That is real and it explains a depressing amount of the industry.

Now the concession: a structured prompt that forces you to consider "what am I ignoring," "what am I afraid of," and "what happens if I do nothing" is not nothing. I object to pretending the cardboard knows. I do not object to using the cardboard to make the human admit what they already know.
show me the denominator
caffeine_Cass
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From: Seattle, US
#3▸ Posted: 18 May 1997, 12:55 PST
That is almost exactly how I read, except with nicer cloth and more coffee. The card is a mirror, not a door. Sometimes the mirror is deliberately warped so you notice a shape you had edited out of yourself.

The ethical line is simple for me: never make the sitter smaller. No death predictions, no "he will come back," no medical certainty, no spiritual blackmail. Ask better questions than the question they brought in.
tarot and coffee, same hour
I_Ching_Ian
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From: Edinburgh, UK
#4▸ Posted: 03 Jun 1997, 21:02 GMT
The Yi Jing version of this is older and stricter: randomisation plus a fixed commentary tradition, forcing the questioner to translate an image into their own circumstance. The danger is the same too. A method becomes an oracle the moment the reader stops saying "this may be about you" and starts saying "this IS what will happen."

I am not against oracles. I am against lazy authority wearing an oracle mask.
six lines, many mistakes
KJV_Caleb
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From: the narrow path
#5▸ Posted: 19 Jun 1997, 16:33 EST
I appreciate the carefulness and I still have to object. Deuteronomy does not carve out an exception for "structured randomness." If a thing is used to seek hidden knowledge by lots, signs, cards, or spirits, I cannot bless it.

I am saying that plainly and, I hope, without sneering. Some doors are still doors even if you call them mirrors.
in love, without apology
LittlePrince_42
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From: small planet, probably
#6▸ Posted: 05 Jul 1997, 15:58 MST
Question from a new person: if the value is forcing a different angle, could you make a non-mystical deck with prompts like "what evidence would change your mind" or "who benefits if you stay stuck"? Or does stripping the old images away remove the useful emotional hook?

Username from a book and a number, not a claim to wisdom, so please answer like I am five but not stupid.
small planet, large denominator
mod_Aoife
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From: Cork, IE
#7▸ Posted: 21 Jul 1997, 23:10 GMT
Caleb, fair objection, and thank you for making it without setting the room on fire. The board can hold "I use this as a cognitive tool" and "my faith forbids this tool" at the same time, provided nobody starts saving souls with a hammer.

LittlePrince, yes, you can make a secular prompt deck. People do. I still use old images because they are culturally overgrown and therefore snag more associations. A clean prompt asks the question you wrote. An old image asks three you did not know were in the room.
Moderator · Cork
GreenGables_Anne
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Joined: May 2002
From: Vermont, US
#8▸ Posted: 06 Aug 1997, 18:41 EST
I used to be embarrassed that my best reading ever was basically "you are staying because leaving would make the last five years feel wasted." No spirits required, just one ugly sentence I had avoided for months.

So I think I am with Aoife and Cass. The cards did not know. I knew. The cards were rude enough to arrange themselves so I had to stop pretending I did not.
not actually Anne
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