 Member ◆◆◆ Posts: 3,410 Joined: Feb 2001 From: [you first] |
#9▸ Posted: 01 Sep 2002, 21:37 CST
Narrow is fine, but do not narrow it until it cannot breathe. The official story is allowed to be broad, emotional, and classified. Skeptics are told to arrive with courtroom proof before asking why evidence is missing.
My amended criteria: motive, means, procedural anomaly, protected beneficiary, narrative discipline, and resistance to independent discovery. If those line up, the burden should shift. Not to prove the whole hidden machine, but to force disclosure from the people who keep insisting there is nothing to see.
who benefits · name three |
 Resident Skeptic ◆◆◆◆◆ Posts: 16,720 Joined: Apr 1998 From: Chicago, US |
#10▸ Posted: 02 Sep 2002, 08:12 CST
The checklist needs tiers or it will become a grab bag. I would split it into evidence classes: motive and opportunity, operational indicators, documentary traces, witness convergence, technical anomalies, and post-event behaviour.
A false-flag claim should not pass because one class looks strange. It should require independent pressure from several classes, with each item rated for source quality and alternative explanations.
the 5% · state the bar before you argue the case |
 Member ◆◆◆ Posts: 1,840 Joined: Feb 2001 From: Washington DC, US |
#11▸ Posted: 02 Sep 2002, 13:44 CST
Applying that to WTC7, I can see why people keep circling back to the collapse, the prior damage reports, the command decisions, and the later public messaging.
But the standard cannot be "looks wrong to me." The better frame is: which evidence class is actually populated, which is merely suggestive, and which is empty unless stronger records surface. Right now I would call it a protected question, not a conclusion.
convergence, not a cabal |
 Senior Member ◆◆◆◆ Posts: 2,890 Joined: Jul 1999 From: San Antonio, TX |
#12▸ Posted: 02 Sep 2002, 19:05 CST
In investigations I used a protected-anomaly standard. You preserve the anomaly from ridicule and from premature explanation at the same time.
That means logging the exact claim, the source, the chain of custody, the competing mundane explanations, and the test that would change your mind. If it survives that handling, it earns more work. If not, it stays in the file but does not drive the case.
ret. AFOSI · paralysis is a mechanism too |
 Senior Member ◆◆◆◆ Posts: 4,890 Joined: Jun 1999 From: Leeds, UK |
#13▸ Posted: 03 Sep 2002, 09:31 CST
The analogy trap is real here. Reichstag, Gleiwitz, Northwoods, Tonkin, and other cases can show that deception by states is possible, but they cannot substitute for event-specific proof.
Historical analogies should discipline our imagination, not licence it. A checklist item should ask whether the present case has its own records, witnesses, material traces, and decision points.
method, not machines |
 Member ◆◆ Posts: 520 Joined: Oct 2000 From: Albany NY, US |
#14▸ Posted: 03 Sep 2002, 16:22 CST
Add authority chains and minutes as their own evidence class. Who had legal authority, who had practical authority, who was in the room, who recorded the meeting, and who later revised the account?
In ordinary government work, minutes, duty logs, sign-in sheets, dispatch records, and after-action drafts are often dull, but dull paper is where real contradictions tend to live.
permits are architecture |
 Member ◆◆◆ Posts: 3,410 Joined: Feb 2001 From: [you first] |
#15▸ Posted: 04 Sep 2002, 01:18 CST
The burden should shift only after threshold facts are met. If there are authenticated records showing impossible timing, missing authority, suppressed warnings, or coordinated story changes, then officials owe a detailed answer.
Before that, the burden stays on the claimant. Suspicion is a spark, not a verdict. Make the state answer for documents, not for vibes.
who benefits · name three |
 Member ◆◆ Posts: 5,120 Joined: Sep 2000 From: ??? |
#16▸ Posted: 04 Sep 2002, 12:07 CST
Everyone keeps naming memos, logs, radio transcripts, and insurance papers. Fine. Then post scans or cite archive boxes.
Newspaper paraphrases are not enough, and neither is somebody's cousin who saw a photocopy. I want dates, letterhead, page numbers, stamps, signatures, and provenance. Without scans, the checklist becomes theatre.
cite it |